Science & Maths In English, The Feedback

Such a hot topic, sure got plenty of views. The first one by swifz on "freedom of choice" has been aptly answered by Smoking Gun. My other replies in purple.

swifz said...

Totally disagree with you. There is no freedom when you impose your will on others. This is like when you think kissing corrupts the mind. So no kissing in the movies. This is like thinking that dressing short skirt invites rape, so you ban short skirt. What is right what is wrong? Are you more wise to decide this?

I always believe in freedom and the strength of diversity. Let every one teach using their way. The parents will decide what is best for their children. Learning different methods ensure that if one method fails, we can count on other methods to survive. It is just like planting rice, you don't have the whole country planting the same species because if a disease strike that species, the whole country will die of hunger.

If parents think that English have its strength, then they will send their children to English school and other type of school will slowly lose out the students. The idea is that we let the parents to make the decision. This is what free economy means. It is not good to have the government control every aspect of our life. This makes us become like communist.

Freedom of choice!!!!!!

SmokingGun said...

We elect a govt as a steward for this generation and to lay the foundations for the next. Which includes debatable education policies such as this even though some quarters may debunk the wisdom of teaching the two subjects in English.

The reasons for objections cited include absurd reasons such as national pride, losing one's Malaysianness, etc, which Dali has so eloquently argued otherwise.

Freedom and strength in diversity is an aspiration and good ideal.. but it will only prosper within well defined and stipulated boundaries, or structures.. Especially in small developing nations like Malaysia, with a substantial rural population, there is a need for the government to act as a shepherd. Total freedom is suicidal.

Parents that are illiterate or monolingual, will tend to perpetuate the cycle, as they are keeping within own comfort zones.. meaning that their children and future generations shall find it difficult to break out of. Govt are supposed to be there for the people, and they are given the mandate to lead them... not for the people to lead them... The poor parent often makes uninformed decisions (often wrong ones), and if it was left on their own, most kids would be out of school..
(The rich wouldnt even bother cos it doesnt affect them.. All their kids are overseas studying anyway)

Malaysia is a small country.. and the language is relatively new.. it would take a herculean effort to translate all the existing scientific texts out there, not to mention the new dissertations and journals appearing everyday in English (and Chinese/Japanese). Better to teach our young to fish (English/Chn/Jap/German/whatever) than to feed them everyday (translate into BM)

This policy has already been in place for a few years already.. if i am not wrong, the statistics has not shown that the overall grades has been affected. It is just politicizing and posturing by certain quarters. The more this issue rages on (which it has gone on for a long while, and has seen some fiery and racist overtones), the more I believe that the future of this country is shrouded with bigotism and close mindedness.. already the livelihoods of many are threatened by the recessionary clouds that hang over us now.. but we seek to deflect this and argue to overturn policies that will reverse our progress and undermine our competitiveness...(its no longer our "cheap" labor..and no, we are not that high up the value chain to be supreme innovators... its our English speaking workforce, stupid..!)

And you wonder, why so many middle-class folk think bout migrating...

-------------------

SS - PLEASE do not look down on those who cannot speak coherent English, it doesn't mean that you are smarter and superior than they are, it just shows that you don't understand what is 山外有山，天外有天。 p/s: Zhang Xin Yu & JJ probably cannot speak coherent English as well, you still like them, don;t you? Is it because of their looks or just double standard ?

SS dear,
I do not look down on people who do not know English. My mum does not know English, but I am certain her choices and options in life would be enhanced if she did. No, I don't look down on my mum. We are all victims and creatures of our surroundings, environment and conditions - if you were born during the war period, you'd be lucky to get any kind of education. I am not against learning Chinese or Malay, go do it by all means... but for heaven's sake, learn English as a priority. I have explained why Science & Maths are so important to be taught in English - its the business, finance and research language of the world. What kind of parents are you to deny your kids, why curtail your child's options. By all means, study history in Chinese, or even Social Studies, or even Ethics, or even Asian History, go and learn calligraphy even ... but do not be blinkered into NOT studying English as a priority. SS, you are barking up the wrong tree when you use the girls knowledge of English as a predetermination of liking or not liking someone, that is so shallow and unnecessary.

I am not looking down on anyone, I am just scolding them and hope they will consider the broader picture. If after all that, you still want to drop English in those two subjects, then go ahead... as they say in cantonese, "you want to die, why should I stop you from dying..." (lei ngoi sei, ngor ngm bei lei sei meh) ... but before I make that statement, I hope to at least shout in anger about the consequences and bigger issues surrounding the matter. If after all that, you still want to "kill" yourself, then go ahead by all means.

Thanks to "random" for replying to SS' queries.

random

random has left a new comment on your post "Teach Syains & Madds In Engris, You Im-be-ci-les":

lol SS wtf is wrong with you?

If you are so adverse to profanities you should stop reading the post instead of emphasizing the use of the word FUCKING (there's already a disclaimer put out)

This is not about looking down on anyone.. this post is about arguing the point that those who study Science and Maths in English will have a competitive edge in the real world.

Please don't bring your inferiority complex here.
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kinwing said... How about Taiwan of which population is only as big as us? So the English standard of most of the Taiwanese is not as good as us but they are integrated with the world well. There is another case from the former British colonial, Hong Kong. I think normal Hong Kong people do not master English very well, at least at the same level with Malaysian. But their competitiveness is much better than us!!! So I think mastering English is not a rocket science of making a person smarter just because he/she knows how to read reports in English. It is the determination of becoming success and attitude are the keys. By the way. I was chinese educated all the way from the primary (Sekolah Cina Kebangsaan), secondary (Chinese Independent High School, SUWA) to tertiary (New Era College, created by a Chinese association, i.e. Dong Jiao Zhong) education. And I only started to seriously learn about English when I was at college. Still I was able to manage to keep up the English standard though I can't say I am mastering it perfectly.

Kin, you are right in citing Taiwan as their population is 22m, but you should also know that there is a huge gravitation of their students to do their degrees in the US. Mastering English DOES NOT make a person smarter, thats not my point at all. Your kids will have an equal chance of being an asshole or a lazy bum or an under achieving good-for-nothing even with English.

At least next time, ask for bribe also can ask in English la...

... oh btw, there are plenty of retired teachers who have an excellent command of English that you can tap on a part time basis. They will be more than happy to help out, just double their last pay scale.


And finally, a sobering commentary from an actual English teacher ....

Arn

Arn has left a new comment on your post "Teach Syains & Madds In Engris, You Im-be-ci-les":

The best way to learn and master the English language is to learn and master the English language itself. Learning Science and Mathematics in English will, by itself, not improve one's standard of English. I should know because I actually teach English.

I can tell you that the best way for anyone to improve their English language skill is to read more books and magazines, and to speak it as much as possible. Forcing children to learn Science and Mathematics in English, when they don't yet have a grasp of the language itself, is of no significant advantage.

The Japanese, Taiwanese and South Koreans are technologically more advanced than us, but the average Japanese, Taiwanese and South Korean can barely hold a decent conversation in English. I should know because I have met Japs, Taiwanese and South Koreans, and talking to them is a real chore at times.

When I was but a wee lad, I studied Science and Maths in Bahasa Malaysia, and I do not believe that I have been disadvantaged in anyway as a result. What I did do was read lots of Beano, Dandy, Spiderman, the Star, NST, WW2 comics, and anything else I could get my hands on, besides watching English language programs on TV and radio. I also spoke English all the time with my schoolmates. Now this is where Malaysian children today are different from us grown-ups; they are more likely to speak their mother tongues instead of English. The Chinese kids will watch HK serials and movies and speak Cantonese or Mandarin with their peers, the Malay kids will stick to BM and the Indian kids will likely be speaking Tamil.

If the idea behind the teaching of Science and Maths in English is so that the children can be immersed in the English language, then you'd have to make English the standard medium of instruction, displacing Bahasa Malaysia. This means everything; Geography, History etc. I doubt if this will happen.

Another logistical stumbling block is the lack of Malaysian TEACHERS who can actually teach English, let alone Science and Maths in English.

In conclusion, the only realistic way forward is to get more English teachers into Malaysia to teach English to Malaysian children, and to encourage Malaysian children to read more books, listen to English-language radio, and speak more English.



p/s photo: Linda Chung Kar Yan

Title: Science & Maths In English, The Feedback
Posted by:Iwanr
Published :2009-06-14T21:45:00-07:00
Rating: 3.5
Reviewer: 5 Reviews
Science & Maths In English, The Feedback

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Ditulis oleh Iwanr pada tanggal Sunday, 14 June 2009